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Old December 21st   #1
dragginbody87
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Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle

http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/16192

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Analyst: 'This might be the most government-supported car since the Trabant'
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Old December 21st   #2
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why all the hate for the Volt? i see nothing but negative things about it here.
i personally think it was a HUGE step for GM to make this car. so far it is the ONLY extended range plug in on the market. the Leaf has no back up after the battery dies, the Prius hybrid isn't a plug in, and the plug in Prius is full electric with no back up.
if you plug the Volt in your wall when you get home you will still be burning fossil fuels just like everything else, BUT if you have solar panels in the roof and a battry system in the basement/crawl space (which i plan on doing on our next house) you can have a truly 0 emission vehicle, that cost you nothing to travel in. i'm sorry, but that's about the best we have commercially available at right now.
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Old December 21st   #3
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Originally Posted by Wilson! View Post
why all the hate for the Volt? i see nothing but negative things about it here.
It was pushed into a market that didn't demand it using my tax money to pay for it. Other than that, no biggie.
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Old December 21st   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson! View Post
why all the hate for the Volt? i see nothing but negative things about it here.
i personally think it was a HUGE step for GM to make this car. so far it is the ONLY extended range plug in on the market. the Leaf has no back up after the battery dies, the Prius hybrid isn't a plug in, and the plug in Prius is full electric with no back up.
if you plug the Volt in your wall when you get home you will still be burning fossil fuels just like everything else, BUT if you have solar panels in the roof and a battry system in the basement/crawl space (which i plan on doing on our next house) you can have a truly 0 emission vehicle, that cost you nothing to travel in. i'm sorry, but that's about the best we have commercially available at right now.
Tesla is releasing a fully electric sedan next year that will have a 200mile range. (Volt is 35miles) AND it won't look like doodoo. (like all the other electric/hybrid cars)

Oh, and the sedan is supposed to be $49k.

Info on the Tesla sedan that was sent out via email within the last 48hours:

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Old December 21st   #5
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Originally Posted by dragginbody87 View Post
It was pushed into a market that didn't demand it using my tax money to pay for it. Other than that, no biggie.
thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old December 21st   #6
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i had a big long reply typed out, but i don't even feel like getting into the beat to death horse that people keep on beating that is "the bailout". how much are you saving in taxes by NOT letting several HUNDRED thousand GM/Chrysler and their subsidiaries go under? at the end of the day, over 3 million people would of been affected if they would of let GM go under. that's 3 millions people on top of the 9% of Americans that are unemployed now. 3 million more people standing in the unemployment line waiting on a check.
at the end of the year, the % I pay in taxes, is the exact same as it was 10 years ago...... just sayin.....


Beck, i'll believe the Tesla when i see one. they have over promised and under delivered for years. i honestly wish they would do something. because the technology sounds great on paper, and i have driven a couple full electric vehicles and having max tq at any rpm is fun.
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Last edited by Wilson!; December 21st at 02:42 PM.
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Old December 21st   #7
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I saw one on the road today and thought it was a good looking car, the guy driving it looked happy, so if he paid 250 for it he must like lt. LOL
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Old December 21st   #8
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Originally Posted by Wilson! View Post
how much are you saving in taxes by NOT letting several HUNDRED thousand GM/Chrysler and their subsidiaries go under?
That's the same argument used when they bailed out Chrysler back in the late 70s (the first bailout). That worked out so well in the long run... First, your premise is UNMEASURABLE. Much like "jobs saved or created" BULL*** we hear, it's easy to say things would've been worse when there's no real way to formulate just how things would've been.

So your argument is invalid, because there is no way to validate your claim that things are better under a crony capitalism where the government decides winners and losers as opposed to capitalism's natural creative destruction. If a company fails, it deserves to fail. If someone isn't marketable with their current skillset, they need to learn a new skillset so they can be marketable. How is any of this my fault? Why must a gun be held to my head to pay for someone else's failures?

Or we can just keep giving them a THIRD of my paycheck to waste, because that's way easier.
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Old December 21st   #9
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i have been giving them a third of my check since i was 18. IT HASN'T changed, not a single %. slamming a car and the company that makes the car every day is going to do what? arguing about something that happened how many years ago is going to change it? oh wait i forgot, it's George W. Bush's fault the world is coming to an end, or no wait, now a days the cool thing is to blame Obama....

there is no wait to tell if things would of been worse, but there is no way to tell if they would of been better. IF they would of let these two companies die, it WOULD have effected a lot more than the people just employed by the two companies. i was in the industry when this was all going down, i KNOW what the uncertainty feels like. if you think letting a company that employs 3 million people go bankrupt won't have a ripple effect, your a fool.
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Old December 21st   #10
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I agree with what Wilson has said.

Michael, seems like every two days you post a negative link or story or something on GM or Chrysler. I know you have a bad taste in your mouth about bailing out car companies, and to a certain extent I do too. I hate to see the government fund private companies, but the backlash and fall out would have been much worse with immediate effects that could have lasted a decade or better.

I would have liked to see some release of union control on those two companies due to the bailout, but with a Democratic president that wasn't going to happen!

All you can do is choose not to purchase their products. If alot of people do that then the companies will get the message. In this day and age a movement of that scale however is near impossible.
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Old December 21st   #11
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Originally Posted by dragginbody87 View Post
It was pushed into a market that didn't demand it using my tax money to pay for it. Other than that, no biggie.
How was it pushed into a market that didn't demand it? Its in the same market as the rest of these hybrid/electric cars like the leaf,prius and others
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Old December 21st   #12
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this is like the one I saw on Airport road - I actually like the looks of them for what they are. Very similar to the Cruz

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Old December 21st   #13
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I like the IDEA. But the market need to support it. Last Summer a buddy of mine was looking for a real electric motorcycle. I was stunned to learn that he could get the $10,000 bike for about $7400 after tax incentives. You just had to wait until tax time. I was a great deal percentage wise compared to a car. But the entire sales pitch started to piss me off when I realize this was my money helping people by a motorcycle. Why should I pay for him to own a 3 pleasure vehicle? He is my best friend, but heck no.
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Old December 22nd   #14
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I just don't see where there are any significant, if any, savings from spending $20k more for a Volt over the Cruze. When technology get's cheaper, then we'll see what happens. Kind of like the $1000 cell phones of the past. Once everyone has access to the technology, prices will plummet.

As for the Tesla, the one to have, the 300 mile range model, goes for $80k. Much better buy if looking for a luxury oriented vehicle (in comparison to say a E350) if savings at the pump is important.

Some real world figures on the Tesla are found here:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/forum...Tesla-for-Sale

And although they are quick off the line, are you aware that the limited top speed is 125mph. (Not that top speed is a determining factor by any means, just wonders why)

But back to the topic at hand. All these tax credits come from the taxpayers, so yes, it costs us every time someone buys an electric car...or rather, it costs the government. Kind of like the cash for clunkers program. Instead of giving tax breaks to the people for high dollar cars, it seems like the govt could offer a nice finders fee to the auto maker that can produce a realistically affordable electric at a similar price to current models. The "people" could then save every day at the pump, the automaker would still profit, and I could then invest in electricity.
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Old December 22nd   #15
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that would make far to much sense, our gubment isn't exactly known to make much sense. common sense has no place in Washington.
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Old December 22nd   #16
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It was probably a silly suggestion anyway. Who needs the bonus when they get bailed out for nothing. lol
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Old December 22nd   #17
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How was it pushed into a market that didn't demand it?
Because they need my tax money waved in front of customers' faces in order to make a sale. Therefore, the product can't stand on its own.
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Old December 22nd   #18
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Because they need my tax money waved in front of customers' faces in order to make a sale. Therefore, the product can't stand on its own.
You should run for office....you have my vote
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Old December 22nd   #19
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Electric and alternative fuel cars don't buy gas (generally speaking) and as a result don't pay the tax that every petroleum based vehicle pays to support public transportation maintenance. Roadway repair, paving, interstate building for federal and local governments. The more you drive, the more fuel you consume, the more you pay for maintenance. Pretty good deal in theory.

So the more of these alternative vehicles on the road in the foreseeable future the lower the quality of the roads unless the government decides to start taxing them in some quantitative way when they "refuel/recharge" or when they are sold. It will be tricky but if they don't the road conditions will continue to get worse.

That's my biggest gripe.
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Old December 22nd   #20
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yes but you get a tax credit for EVERY alternative fueled vehicle on the market, not just this one, yet all the hate is directed toward this one vehicle.
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